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Zeitschriften über OsteuropaDie Außerirdischen im Osten

Wie stehts um die literarische Ost-West-Vermittlung? Das aktuelle "Wespennest" blickt nach Mazedonien, und "Osteuropa" sieht die Literatur im Schatten der Politik.

Ein junges Mädchen protestiert in Skopje für den Beibehalt des Namens "Mazedonien". Bild: dpa

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17 Kommentare

 / 
Kommentarpause ab 30. Dezember 2024

Wir machen Silvesterpause und schließen ab Montag die Kommentarfunktion für ein paar Tage.
  • A
    Andronikos

    Wir zeigen hier NIE hellensiche Quellen

     

    www.cdsee.org/jhp/download_eng.html.

     

    Sponsoren:

    The United States Department of State,

    The United States Agency for International Development (USAID),

    The German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and

    The Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe

     

    WorkBook 3: Balkan Wars

    Population estimates of the European provinces of the Ottoman Empire for 1911

     

    Quelle:

    Cem Behar, Osmanli Imparatorluğunun ve Turkiyenin

    Nufusu. Die Bevoelkerung des Osmanischen Reichs und der Turkei 1500 – 1927, Historische Statistik, Ankara 1996.

     

    Noch einmal die Zahlen

     

    Selanik (Thessaloniki)

    Μuslim: 604.780

    Greeks: 397.795

    Bulgarian: 271.359

    Armenian: 87

    Catholic: Keine Angaben

    Jews: 62.290

    Other: 11.604

    Total: 1.426.632

    Keine Refferenz an “ethnisch Mazedonier”

     

    Monastir (Bitola)

    Μuslim: 455.720

    Greeks: 349.541

    Bulgarian: 246.344

    Armenian: 9

    Catholic: Keine Angaben

    Jews: 10.651

    Other: 2.614

    Total: 1.064.789

    Keine Refferenz an “ethnisch Mazedonier”

     

    Thessaloniki und Monastirion waren die einzigen Vilaets (Prefaektur) Makedoniens waehrend des osmanischen Reichs.

     

    Keine Refferenz an “ethnisch Mazedonier” in den osmanischen Archiven.

  • K
    Kleopatra

    @Vogel,

     

    Ich bin Atheistin aber

     

    eine andere kulturelle Provokation von Fyrom gegen Hellas ist die Herkunft der Gebrueder Methodios und Kyrilos (Konstantinos)

     

    Alle Quellen bezeichnen die Gebrueder Kyrilos (Konstantinos) und Methodios als Griechen geboren in Thessaloniki.

     

    Kein Wort ueber “ethnisch Mazedonier”

     

    Besuchen Sie die Web-Site in Vatican

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_31121980_egregiae-virtutis_lt.html

    “Cyrillus autem et Methodius fratres, Graeci, Thessalonicae nati…” sagt Papst John Paul II

    Also many non-Greeks accept that the 2 brothers were Greeks:The Slav Pope John Paul II who in 31/12/1980 (in an official encyclical-Egregiae Virtutis-to the Catholic Church) and 14/2/1981(in the S.Clement church in Rome) said that Cyrillos and Methodios were “Greek brothers, born in Thessaloniki”

     

    Hier NUR EINIGEN Referenzen von Buecher ueber die “ethnicity” von Kyril und Methodios.

    References from books about the ethnicity of Cyril and Methodius.

     

    1.

    Then in the ninth century Cyril and Methodius, two Greek monks from Thessaloniki , developed the Cyrillic alphabet and spread both literacy and Christianity to the Slavs.

    “The macedonian conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a transnational world” by Loring Danforth

     

    2.

    Two Greek brothers from Salonika, Constantine, who later later became a monk and took

    the name Cyril, and Methodius came to Great Moravia in 863 at the invitation of the Moravian Prince Rostislav

    “Comparative history of Slavic Literatures” by Dmitrij Cizevskij, page vi

     

    3.

    the Byzantine court entrusted it to two brothers with wide experience o missionary work: Constantine the Philosopher, better known by his monastic name, Cyril and Methodius. Cyril and Methodius were Greeks.

    “Czechoslovakian Miniatures from Romanesque and Gothic Manuscripts” by Jan Kvet, p. 6

     

    4.

    In answer to this appeal the emperor sent the two brothers Cyril and Methodius, who were Greeks of Salonika and had considerable knowledge of Slavonic languages.

    The Balkans: A history of Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece, Rumania, Turkey (1916)” by Forbes, Nevil, p. 21

     

    5.

    In order to convert the Slavs to Christianity, Greek missionaries Cyril and Methodius learned the language.

    “Lonely Planet Croatia” by Jeanne Oliver, P.35

     

    6.

    two brothers, the Apostles of the Sclavonians or Slavs, born in Greece and educated in Constantinople.

    “Book of the Saints 1921″ by Monks Benedictine, P. 74

     

    7.

    Cyril, St 827-69 and Methodius, St 826-85, known as the Apostles of the Slavs - Greek Christian missionaries- They were born in Thessalonica.

    “The Riverside Dictionary of Biography” by the American Heritage Dictionaries, p. 208

     

    8.

    two greek brothers, Cyril and Methodius, were sent in response to this request. This development was of particular importance to the formation of eastern european culture.

    “historical Theology” by McGrath, p.125

     

    9.

    the byzantine emperor sent two greek monks, Cyril and Methodius, to spread Christianity to the slavic people.

    “Global History and Geography” by Phillip Lefton, p. 130

     

    10.

    As the Slav tribes feel under the influence of Byzantium a considerable number of them were baptised but they were first converted to Christianity in Mass by the Greek brothers, Cyril and Methodius

    Black lamb and Grey Falcon: A journey through Yugoslave” by Rebecca West, P. 710

     

    11.

    “Cyrillus autem et Methodius fratres, Graeci, Thessalonicae nati…”

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j…irtutis_lt.htmlhttp://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo…rtutis_lt.html Pope John Paul II.

     

    12.

    R. L. Wilkens book “Judaism and the Early Christian Mind” (1971)

    Cyril and Methodius, Saints (muth..us) [key], d. 869 and 884, respectively, Greek missionaries, brothers, called Apostles to the Slavs and fathers of Slavonic literature. Their history and influence are obscured by conflicting legends. After working among the Khazars, they were sent (863) from Constantinople by Patriarch Photius to Moravia. This was at the invitation of Prince Rostislav, who sought missionaries able to preach in the Slavonic vernacular and thereby check German influence in Moravia. Their immediate success aroused the hostility of the German rulers and ecclesiastics. Candidates from among their converts were refused ordination, and their use of the vernacular in the liturgy was severely criticized. According to one source, when Photius was excommunicated by Rome the brothers were called there. Their orthodoxy was established, and the use of Slavonic in the liturgy was approved. Cyril died while in Rome, but Methodius, consecrated by the pope, returned to Moravia and was made archbishop of Sirmium. Despite the papal sanction the Germans contrived to have him imprisoned, and, though released two years later, his effectiveness appears to have been blocked. His last years were spent translating the Bible and ecclesiastical books into Slavonic. His influence in Moravia was wiped out after his death but was carried to Bulgaria, Serbia, and Russia, where the southern Slavonic of Cyril and Methodius is still the liturgical language of both Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches. The Cyrillic alphabet. used in those countries today, traditionally ascribed to St. Cyril, was probably the work of his followers. It was based probably by Cyril himself upon the glagolithic alphabet, which is still used by certain Croatian and Montenegrin Catholics. Feast: July 713.

    The Significance of the Missions of Cyril and Methodius Francis DvornikSlavic Review > Vol. 23, No. 2 (Jun., 1964) page: 196

    Moravian Christianity even had species of ecclesiastical organization before the arrival of the Greek brothers

     

    14.

    The Significance of the Missions of Cyril and Methodius Francis Dvornik Slavic Review > Vol. 23, No. 2 (Jun., 1964) page: 211

    This short sketch of the cultural development of the Slavic nations in the Middle Ages seems necessary to show the real significance of the mission of the two Greek brothers. Its aim in Moravia was, above all, cultural.

     

    15.

    Slavic Translations of the Scriptures Matthew Spinka, The Journal of Religion > Vol. 13, No. 4 (Oct., 1933), pp. 415

    When those ancient precursors of Bible translators, the Greek brothers Constantine and Methodius, translated certain parts of the Scriptures and the liturgical books into Slavic for the use of their Moravian converts

     

    16.

    Slavic Translations of the Scriptures Matthew Spinka The Journal of Religion > Vol. 13, No. 4 (Oct., 1933), pp. 415

    Thus in a sense the two Greek brothers and their disciples fought a fight in behalf of all the later Bible translators and liturgical vernacularists, the English among them.

     

    17.

    Slavic Translations of the Scriptures Matthew Spinka, The Journal of Religion > Vol. 13, No. 4 (Oct., 1933), pp. 416-17In co-operation with Patriarch Photius they selected the renowned teacher of philosophy at the court school of Magnaura, Constantine, and his elder brother, Methodius, Greeks from Thessalonica, who were well acquainted with the language of the Macedonian Slavs, as best-fitted missionaries for the Moravian field.

     

    18.

    Slavic Translations of the Scriptures Matthew Spinka, The Journal of Religion > Vol. 13, No. 4 (Oct., 1933), pp. 424

    The Slavic liturgy was, beyond any doubt, a radical innovation which the Greek brothers could not have justified except as an essential element in insuring the success of their work.

     

     

    KEIN WORT UEBER “ETHNISCH MAZEDONIER”

     

    Schreiben ihre Literaten aus Skopje ueber die

    skruppenlosen kulturellen Provokationen Fyroms gegen alle aber gegen alle ihren Nachbarn?

     

     

    Gruss

    Thessaloniki-Makedonia-Hellas.

  • K
    Kleopatra

    Schreiben eure Literaten aus Skopje ueber den Faschismus in Skopje 1942 Frau Vogel?

     

    Der bulgarische Koenig Borris II in Skopje April 1942.

     

    Lassen Sie das Video spielen

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeDCJZ3kCHI&feature=related

     

    Alles nur faschistisch.

     

    Alte Verwandtschaften Frau Vogel,

    Alte Verwandtschaften.

  • K
    Kleopatra

    Der griechischer Aufstand gegen den Osmanen in Makedonia das Jahr 1854

     

    http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/11/19/the-greek-uprising-in-macedonia-of-1854/

     

    Kapinski?

  • A
    Andronikos
  • D
    Dorothea

    @Sonja Vogel

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFKy0auntSA&NR=1

     

    Der historischer Teil Makedoniens ist hellenischer Boden und wurde 1913 vom Bukarester Abkommen legitimiert. Also seit 100 Jahren schoen.

     

    Davor war osmanischer Boden. Die Osmanen haben nie von einem "makedonischen Volk" gesprochen und geschrieben. Nur von Bulgaren. Warum?

     

    Wir werden mit allen unseren Kraeften gegen den ultra-nationalistischen Wahn, eines Gross-Slavo-Makedoniens (United Makedonia), der in Skopje herscht, kaepfen.

  • K
    Kleopatra

    @Vogel

     

     

    King Boris II of Bulgaria arrives in Skopje April,1942 to the adulation of the Fyromians/Vardaskans shouting “our King our King”

     

    Der bulgarische Koenig in Skopje April 1942.

     

    Das Volk ruft “unser Koenig, unserer Koenig”

  • S
    Sabine

    Hier die Vergina-Sonne in Thessaloniki-Makedonia Museum

     

    www.kzu.ch/fach/as/aktuell/2000/04_vergina/verg_04.htm

     

    Sonja Vogel, Sie Sind herzliche eingeladen.

  • S
    Sabine

    Hier die Sonne von Vergina in Thessaloniki Museum.

     

    www.kzu.ch/fach/as/aktuell/2000/04_vergina/verg_04.htm

  • S
    Sabine

    @SONJA VOGEL

     

    3/4 der Bildflaeche wird von der Vergina-Sonne

     

    und eine "glueckliche" junge Frau, in Paris-

     

    Style, belegt.

     

    In einem Land mit einer Arbeitsloesigkeit um 40%

     

    und zwar vor der Welt-Finanz-Krise ist sicherlich

     

    der Nationalismus, oder besser der

     

    Ultranationalismus die beste Droge.

     

    Aber

     

    www.kzu.ch/fach/as/aktuell/2000/04_vergina/verg_04.htm

     

    Der Stern von Vergina wurde von Emanuel

     

    Andronikos (Archailogie Proffessor an der

     

    Makedonia-Universitaet in Thessaloniki) 1978 bei

     

    archäologischen Ausgrabungen in der zu

     

    Griechenland gehörenden Region Makedonien

     

    entdeckt.

     

    Bis 1991 hat keiner in Fyrom die Vergina-Sonne

     

    als nationales Symbol verwendet.

     

    Seitdem wird sie von den

     

    Nationalisten in Skopje benutzt, um die

     

    Hellenen zu provozieren.

     

    Griechenland hat 1995 bei der Weltorganisation

     

    für geistiges Eigentum (WIPO) die exklusiven

     

    internationalen Rechte für die Vergina-Sonne

     

    beansprucht und erlangt.

     

    Ich hoffe Sie verstehen was das heisst Frau so

     

    und so.

  • S
    Sabine

    “Aegean Macedonia” is a Slav Macedonian irredentist term used to refer to the region

    of Macedonia in Greece, in the context of a greater ‘United Macedonia’. The origins

    of the term seem to be rooted in the 1940s, but its modern usage is widely considered

    ambiguous and irredentist. The term has occasionally appeared on several maps

    circulated in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), which

    envisioned Greek Macedonia (referred to as “Aegean Macedonia”) as part of a

    “Greater Macedonia”, and is regarded as a challenge of the legitimacy of Greek

    sovereignty over the area.

    The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World”, Loring M. Danforth, p. 37

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/author/loring-m-danforth

  • S
    Sabine

    ALLEN UPWARD, THE EAST END OF EUROPE, LONDON 1908, PP 25-27

     

    “Es ist nicht mehr noetig zu demostrieren dass der Charakter der “mazedonischen Nationalitaet” konstruiert wurde”

  • K
    Kleopatra

    Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

     

    Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead

     

    Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek

     

    and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in

     

    ancient Greek and Roman world (including of

     

    course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal

     

    house were Greeks descended from Argos of

     

    Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged

     

    to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”,

     

    descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was

     

    Heracles, son of Zeus. (Diod. 17.1.5, 17.4.1;

     

    Plut, Alex 2.1-2, Fortuna 1.10 = Moratia 332a;

     

    Justin 11.4.5, 7.6.10-12, Theop. (FGTH US F3SS -

     

    Tzetzes, ad Lycophr 1439); Paus. ‘Description of

     

    Greece’ 1.9.8, 7.8; Velleius Paterculus: “The

     

    Roman History” Book I.5; Isocrates: ‘To Philip’

     

    32; Herod. 5.22.1-2, 8.43; Thuc. 2, 99, 3; Curt. 4.6.29)

     

     

    Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest

    Macedonians as Greeks”

     

    The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700

     

    BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part

     

    of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously

     

    if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people

     

    to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in

     

    Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really

     

    irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’

     

    people while migrating to rename existing foreign

     

    toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the

     

    earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian

     

    place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.

     

     

     

    Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

     

    The surviving literary and archaeological

     

    evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages

     

    shows clearly that Macedonians considered

     

    themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the

     

    Greek language and civilization to Asia while

     

    revenging Persians for their “crimes against

     

    Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(Herod. 9.45;

     

    Diod. 16.93.1; Arrian 2.14.4, 3.18.11-12,

    I.16.10, “Indica” XXXIII; Plut- Alex. XXXIII, Moralia 332A; Curt. 5.6.1, 5.8.1; Joseph 11.8.5; Polyvius 7.9.4, 18.4.8; Liv. XXXI,29, 15; IG X,2 1 1031)

     

     

     

    Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

     

    Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks

     

    and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient

     

    Greek accounts attributed some of the most

     

    patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to

     

    Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories

     

    of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos,

     

    Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their

     

    participations among Greek troops and folk,

     

    membership of Macedonia in the associations of

     

    the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which

     

    had long been an important Panhellenic

     

    (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all

     

    verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed

     

    Macedonians as Greeks. (Polyb., IX.35.2 (Loeb,

     

    W.R. Paton), IX.37, 38.8; Isocr, “To Philip”,

     

    5.139, 5.140, 5.8; Callisth. ‘Oration of

     

    Demosthenes’ 2.3.4.-5, 2.4.5, 2.4.7-8 ; Curtius

     

    3.3; Arrian ‘Anab. Alex’ 2.14. 4, 3.27.4-5;

     

    Pausanias, ‘Phocis’ VIII.4, Eleia VIII, 11

     

    [Loeb]) ; Strab. VII.Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones]),

    VII. Fr 7.1, 10.2.23; Herod. VIII.137. 1 [Loeb]), I.56.3 [Loeb, A.D. Godley]); Hesiod, Catalogues of Women and Eoiae 3 [Loeb, H.G. Evelyn-White])

    Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

     

    The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish,

     

    Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are

     

    listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes,

     

    speaking the same language and in general

     

    Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting

     

    the Barbarians. (Curt. 3.3.6, 3.7.3, 3.12.27,

    4.1.10, 4.5.11, 4.5.14, 4.6.29, 4.8. 13-14, 4.10.1, 5.6.1, 5.7.3, 5.7.11, 6.9.35, 7.5.36, 7.6.1, 7.6.35; Liv. XXXI.29.15, XLV, 32.22; Cicero Orations; Ceasar ‘Civ. Wars’ 111.103.3; Vel. Patercul. ‘Roman history’ I.5; Justinus Un. History 7.1, 11.3.6; Aelian ‘Var Historia’ VII.8, 12.37(39); Pliny ‘Natural history’; Tacitus ‘Annals of Imperial Rome’ Chap. 8 pg 221; Persian inscr. of ca 513, Persian story of Zulqarneen, Bahram Yasht 3.34; Edicts of Ashoka V & XIII; Maccabees 1:10, 8:18, Megillah 11a, Dan 11:2, 10:20, Isiaiah chap. 19.20, 19.23, Joel Cahp 3.v6, Habacoum cap. 2.v5; Josephus ‘Antiquities of the jews’ Book 11 par 337, 109, 148, 184, 286, Book 8 para. 61, 95, 100, 154, 213, Book 10 para. 273, Book 12 para. 322, 414, Philo of Alexandria, Maimonides; Babylonian Diaries Diary No -168. A14-15)

     

     

    Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

     

    In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours

     

    (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian

     

    names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots

     

    in a percentage of over 95%. According to the

     

    encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names

     

    born from Macedonians born before the ascent of

     

    Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek

     

     

    origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also

     

    be found in other Greek tribes.

     

    We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped

     

    by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either

     

    pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes,

     

    either purely macedonian, but with a Greek

     

    etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities

     

    with a non-hellenic root but with a greek

     

    termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian

     

     

    All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we

     

    know are Greek. Regarding the names of the

     

    months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars,

     

    and at least two more are also purely Greek. The

     

    idea that the Macedonians took the names of the

     

    months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the

     

    question, as in that case they would have taken

     

    an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an

     

    amalgam of different greek calendars and, more

     

    important, they would never invent themselves two

     

    Greek names of months. ” All these of course are

     

    taking place at a time where the Illyrian and

     

    Thracian names have in their vast majority

     

    non-greek etymologies.

     

     

     

    Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

     

    According to the eminent linquist, Olivier

     

    Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical

     

    Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long

     

    while Macedonian onomastics, which we know

     

    relatively well thanks to history, literary

     

    authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable

     

    role in the discussion. In our view the Greek

     

    character of most names is obvious and it is

     

    difficult to think of a Hellenization due to

     

    wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as

     

    early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to

     

    Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”

    (Pausanias Messeniaka XXIX.3; Strabo 7.7.8; Plutarch Pyrrhus II.1, XI.4; . Livius XXXI.29.15, XLV; Curtius VII.5.29, VII 9.25 - 11.7)

     

     

    Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

     

    Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic

     

    campaign against Persia and through his conquests

     

    spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave

     

    throughout the Near East and created economically

     

    and culturally, a single world stretching from

     

    Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine)

     

    as lingua franca. He built a network of almost

     

    thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a

     

    building program that was expanded by later

     

    Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of

     

    Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters

     

    were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek,

     

    wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning,

     

    adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek

     

    athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and

     

    the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were

     

    the definitive statements of the Macedonian

     

    royalty and nobility. (Aelian ‘Varia Historia’

     

    13.11; Arrian I.16.7, I12.1-2, Plutarch Ages.

     

    15.4, Moralia I, 328D, 329A, Alex. 15, 33,

     

    37.6-7; Diod. 16.95.1-2, 17.67.1; Callisthenes

     

    2.3.4-5, 2.4.5, 2.4.7-8, 3.1.2-4; Arrian “Indica”

     

    XXXIII, XXXVIII, XXIX, ‘Anab.’ Arrian I.16.7, II,

     

    14, 4, 3.18.11-12 ; Polybius IX.35.2, IX.34.3,

     

    17.4.9; Curtius 3.3.6, 4.1.10-11, 4.5.11,

     

    4.14.21, 5.6.1, 5.7.3, 5.7.11, 8.1.29)

     

     

    Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

    Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.

    Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.

    The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted

    and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“. (Arrian I 11.1-2, I.11.6; Diod. 16.95.2, 16.91.5-6; Pausanias 6.18.3, 9.39.3; Ath. Deipnos. XII.537d-540a, XIII 572d-e; Diogenes Laert. 1.8; Curtius 3.7.3, 3.12.27, 4.13.15, 6.10.14, 8.2.32, 8.11.24, Plutarch ‘Alexander’ 33; Polybius 7.9.1-7)

  • K
    Kleopatra

    Offensichtlich wurde das Photo veroeffentlicht um

     

    die Hellenen zu provozieren.

     

    3/4 der Flaeche des Photos zeigt das griechisch-

     

    makedoniche Symbol, die Vergina-Sonne und eine

     

    junge slavo-mazedonerin (wahrhscheinlich Arbeitslos) als junge Frau in Paris.

    (Fyrom 40% Arbeitsloesigkeit, 3000 BIP)

     

    Also Nationalismus und Interentismus ist ein guter Grund die Armut im Lande zu ueberleben.

     

    Aber

     

    http://www.kzu.ch/fach/as/aktuell/2000/04_vergina/verg_04.htm

     

    Das Symbol des Sterns von Vergina wurde 1978 bei

     

    archäologischen Ausgrabungen in der zu

     

    Griechenland gehörenden Region Makedonien

     

    entdeckt.

     

    Manolis Andronikos, der griechische Archäologie

     

    Proffessor an der Makedonia Universitaet in

     

    Thessaloniki, entdeckte 1978 das Symbol des

     

    Sterns von Vergina bei archailogischen

     

    Ausgrabungen in der zu Griechenland gehoerenden

     

    Region Makedonien.

     

    Griechenland hat 1995 bei der Weltorganisation

     

    für geistiges Eigentum (WIPO) die exklusiven

     

    internationalen Rechte für den Stern von Vergina

     

    beansprucht und erlangt.

     

    Georgiewski der ehemaliger MP Fyroms des

     

    nationalistischen VMRO in einem Interview.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUf0s5NORDc&feature=related

     

    Er behauptet dass "wir Slaven sein und haetten

     

    mit Alt-Mazedonier nichts zut tun".

     

    Die "Vergina Sonne" ist eine griechische-

     

    makedonische Kultur-Erbe und ist im makedonisches

     

    Museum in Thessaloniki zu sehen.

     

    Die Nationalisten in Skopje benutzen die

     

    Vergina-Sonne um die Hellenen zu provozieren und

     

    auf ihren Interentismus in Hellas aufmerksam zu

     

    machen.

  • K
    Kleopatra

    @Sonja Vogel

     

    Georgiewski der ehemaliger MP Fyroms des nationalistischen VMRO in einem Interview.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUf0s5NORDc&feature=related

     

    Er behauptet dass "wir Slaven sein und haetten mit Alt-Mazedonier nichts zut tun".

     

    Die Taz unterstuetzt skruppenlose eine Regierung in Skopje, die sehr viele faschistoide und rassistische Merkmale aufweist.

     

    Im Gegensatz dazu wird immer wieder Hellas demonisiert. Das ist aber weit entfernt von dem europaischen Werten des Konsensus.

     

    Die "Vergina Sonne" ist eine griechische-makedonische Kultur-Erbe und ist im makedonisches Museum in Thessaloniki zu sehen.

     

    Die Taz soll endlich den Krieg mit dem hellenischen Volk aufhoeren.

     

    Aber ich vergesse es immer wieder. Sie wollen Geld verdienen und Provokation bringen euch immer mehr Geld in den sowieso leere Kassen.

     

    Arme Tazler.

  • M
    Maria

    @Vogel,

     

    Sicherlich eine Provokation.

     

    http://www.nationalflaggen.de/historische/flagge-mazedonien-1992-1995.html

    Bedeutung / Ursprung der (Slavo) Mazedonien (1992-1995)-Flagge:

    Die (slavo) mazedonische Flagge von 1992 - 1995 ist rot und zeigt in der Mitte die "Sonne von Vergina" (Sun of Vergina).

    Die Sonne von Vergina ist ursprüunglich ein griechisches Symbol.

    Aus diesem Grund protestierten die Griechen gegen die Nutzung der Flagge durch die (slavo) mazedonische Regierung.

    Die "Sonne von Vergina" ist das Symbol der Philip-Dynastie und symbolisiert mit die Geburt Griechenlands im 4. Jahrhundert vor Christus.

  • A
    Andronicos

    @Slavo-Neu-Deutschen.

     

    The Journal of International Relations By George h. Blakeslee

    …., the great majority of the population is Slavic, … the middle ages until 1913 called themselves and were called by their neighbors Bulgarians……